The City

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Re: The City

Postby Visavis » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:40 pm

Black Seven wrote:I was speaking to Vis about these ideas and there is always the potential of combining a number of different ones into a focused one. The idea of it being the two-bit fellow sparking the fire could serve as the catalyst for more powerful criminals rising up to take advantage of the situation. Its a large city, it could end up having different villains striving to stake out their portion, or destroy it. Hell, even a few of the greedier types could flip sides and try to save the city - or at least their stake in it.


We could still have a big bad who gets most of the infamy show up as well. The one who the other villains either join or are taken out by, and who essentially deals the deathblow to the city.
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Re: The City

Postby Dr. Qiang » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:56 pm

Something I've been mulling over since I got pointed here by Rain was:

How do villains and supervillains evade justice in the new city?

Since Advent City is figuratively built upon "paved over" ruins of an older cit(y/ies), traditional cleanup probably would've been nearly impossible. In places, especially such as the old Downtown areas, it seems to me that they probably really would've paved over the old ruins to save time and money, which would've left a warren of half-collapsed passageways, "lost" subway tracks, unused sewers and storm drains, interconnected basements, and etc.

I kinda like the thought of a vast, dangerous, and mostly lawless tunnel network right below Advent City's more idyllic surface to hammer home the "corruption is lurking right below your feet" feel. It makes more sense to me than making the city's entire police force completely inept, and it'd make an interesting setpiece.



So I suppose my real question/suggestion is: does Advent City have an Undercity? A place where a person can simply vanish into tunnels, where the Police are reluctant to go without serious backup, where sinister corporations can deploy secret research facilities with a minimum of fuss (and the judicious application of military hardware to drive out squatters and gangbangers)? If so, how extensive would it be? And what should it be called? My vote's for "Undercity" for officials/cops and for criminals to refer to it colloquially as "Escape" or "Freedom."
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Re: The City

Postby Alexis Apollo » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:56 am

I think the Undercity is a great idea, and actually plausible in a place like Advent. You don't go from charred ruins to pride of America in a decade without cutting a lot of corners.

The Undercity idea fits very well with earlier discussions about "unreclaimed" sections of the city: Poverty- and crime-stricken neighborhoods that haven't been fully rebuilt yet due to lack of investment, political oversight or intentional neglect. While these may not be the best places to live, they're not beyond hope; at least some people call it home. The Undercity, however, is the real hive of scum and villainy.

I just learned that Wilmington doesn't have a subway system. However, we could wave our hands and say that in this universe, Wilmington was just about to complete an enormous Big Dig-style subway and sewer upgrade project right before the Blaze. All of those pristine, nearly-complete tunnels sitting forgotten right underneath the new city...
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Re: The City

Postby Black Starbeam » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:38 am

One point I brought up in chat is in the style of the Seattle Underground. An entire floor just dropping below street level. Similar cause too. There's plenty of tunnels that could be made by just paving over things and starting again, especially if you have enterprising criminals involved and digging out more, or even adding to sneaky tunnels they already had.

Someone (Qiang?) related it to Chicago's undercity, which looks pretty neat too.

All things considered, all that Oranbega shit never made a whole lot of sense to me, but active tunnelling building a criminal underworld makes a ton of sense to me. Especially in a brand new city built on the ruins of a 400 odd year old city.

I really, really like this idea.
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Re: The City

Postby Plague of Wasps » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:26 am

FINALLY got through the bulk of this thread, and I wanted to chime in and say I really like the "Undercity" idea. Particularly for the sekrit scientific research bases beneath. Now we need to stamp on our own version of a corrupt biotech company...
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Re: The City

Postby Dr. Qiang » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:56 pm

I put this in the wrong thread!
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Re: The City

Postby Skewey » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:05 am

This is a great thread, and I regret not giving it a read-through sooner. Let me weigh in.

- "Advent City" is easily the coolest superhero city name I've ever heard of.

- Yes yes yes to a black box of an undercity lurking below the surface.

- AA's words of warning about over-editing are right on the money: if an idea you have isn't of direct relevance to any story, I wouldn't do it; fluff and clutter can add up, and even worse in a collaborative situation like this, you could be limiting the creative freedom of someone else down the line.

- I like the idea of a city very much in transition in the aftermath of a large-scale disaster. I like the idea of a great fire. I like the idea it was deliberate. All that being said...

- While I don't doubt it was through brainstorming you guys came up with the idea of a classic high-powered supervillain cleaning house, I just want to advise that this is exactly what happens in the lore of Champions Online. If you guys are fine with this, then okay! If you guys are leery of being thought of as copycats, well, me too. Especially knowing we could do better, because what we have now basically is the comic book equivalent of "a wizard did it".

- Of course it wouldn't be classy to say all that without nominating an alternative, so mine would be the true mastermind behind the fire is not yet known. Consider what I mentioned earlier; ambiguity would work in our favor here, both as a way to keep our options open further down the line, and provide an excellent source of character conflict. Consider this: the aftermath of a disaster is a large-scale crucible of political concerns, logistical challenges and emotional storms; there are known facts and half-truths, but the full picture is wanting. Nobody would object to the most thorough investigation possible, but how long can you preserve a crime scene while hundreds of thousands of people are without homes? Is paving over the ashes an essential move or a way to keep secrets buried? Are those who want the city to face forward and move on optimists, or hiding something? Pieces of the whole truth might be scattered from the deepest depths of the undercity to the highest corridors of government power, and some people will stop at nothing to uncover it, and some people will stop at nothing to prevent them. Or we know who did it from the get-go, stand united and have a moment of silence once a year. I know what'd intrigue me for longer!
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Re: The City

Postby Black Seven » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:12 pm

Skewey wrote:- While I don't doubt it was through brainstorming you guys came up with the idea of a classic high-powered supervillain cleaning house, I just want to advise that this is exactly what happens in the lore of Champions Online. If you guys are fine with this, then okay! If you guys are leery of being thought of as copycats, well, me too. Especially knowing we could do better, because what we have now basically is the comic book equivalent of "a wizard did it".


I honestly had those same concerns at first, and while there hasn't been any real commitment to any specific backstory that I'm aware of at this time (I may have missed conversation in the chatroom if it went on there) I would offer up a slight revision of one of the initial ideas I had originally tossed forward. Specifically the one regarding an unimpressive criminal doing it when he goes into a kind of knee jerk revenge mode after being disrespected one time too many.

The reality? His revenge scheme was intended to be less malevolent than results proved to be. He had initially rigged the water mains in the sewers to detonate and cripple the city as it scrambled to replace them, but investigators were baffled to discover that while several sections of the sewer did show the telltale signs of his sabotage, the materials used in separate areas were different. Several more potent, and quite clearly designed to attack the gas mains, and others that looked to be designed to weaken the foundation of buildings and streets. There is little confirmed information regarding the differences, but hypotheses and conspiracy theories flow fast and furious among those who are privy to this information.

In an attempt to keep this underwraps, authorities have placed blame squarely on him as the mastermind since his actions did cause the chain reaction of events, but the case itself remains open years after the event occurred.

Maybe something like that so there is an official face that people have to blame for the event, but undisclosed other parties that appeared to have made moves to worsen it. Hell, there could eventually be some news story that unveils the information at a later point which could cause riots in the city as people demand more information that may have been previously withheld.
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